Trash Orchestra to Defend Drummers from SCPD

that was precisely my thought. People can choose between Carmel/Monterey and Santa Cruz. Why should we enforce these rules here, when people have freedom of movement to go where there are no student, no hippies etc. in the south side of the bay.

Tired of it, the scene, and the sanctimonious insistence that it enriches my community or my life.

Thank you Trash Orchestra!

I agree the Drum Circle is a very positive thing and many positive things have come out of it. Public space continues to be squeezed , removed, and managed under such oppressive laws leaving people few legal places to simply be.
This "not in my town" mentality is not the answer. People living near the Drummers Circle should expect a little noise. After ten years I think SC can handle it for a few hours a week. It should also be said that despite being spied on, harassed and warned for weeks, there was no arrests last year except for Marry which had nothing to do directly with the circle and was ridicules. But lots of tax payer money was spent for not.

If we called every time a tourist was breaking the 15 minute trespass law, walking a dog on the mall, sitting on a planter, or siting within 15 feet of a change machine, would the response be the same?

Last week two to three officers spent 5 hours keeping musicians away. I would hope they can find better things to do with our tax dollars.

I hope we can find some solidarity with the Farmers Market. We may all need each other if and when the 43 million dollar parking lot comes to pass. The sound of development downtown has been far more disturbing then a few hours of drums each week. You think its loud now, wait for the parking lot.

Mayor Connerty claims this all stems from 12 complaints, some from a few farmers, although he has yet to make them public. Has anyone who complained ever approached the drum circle and talked to them? They are human beings and approachable. I fail to see why action has to be taken this far by the City and police when no real dialog between the musicians has occurred. The City seems to think this is the only answer. But we do hold the power to decide what rights we choose to give up. I choose to keep mine. Remember we collectively own public space.

FYI: The Live Oak Farmers Market is starting their own children's Drum Circle.

Peace out!

I liked the nice letter from David Meyberg, posted in the previous thread. He said it better than I could. I think drumming is OK, but I think the scene has gotten so big, it is its own event, and makes the market chaotic.

Here's David's letter again:

Robert,

While I am a true supporter of free speech, peaceful assembly and communication, I would like to bring a few observations to your attention. While I am not one who has or would complain to the police, I live several blocks away from the farmers market and the drumming which goes on for hours sometimes, even tends to bother me.

The fact is, it is very loud. The sound which is non-discriminatory, imposes on every person shopping, conversing and otherwise sharing information by word of mouth that would occur at any community event or gathering.

Why must the farmers market be the venue (time and place) for the drum circle? Why every week? Why do they not play at a place remote where the sound is less disruptive to others who do not wish to be subject to it? Kind of a passive aggressive move on part of the drummers. They gather to play at an audience who is not necessarily there to see or listen to them. I am not sure if drumming (in my opinion) is protected speech or protected conduct. While it is expressive art, I am not sure what the message is if any.

I do appreciate, respect and in fact love you as a champion to protect peoples' civil liberties, in this case, I am not sure how compatible the drumming activity is at a farmers market. And by the way, yesterday, I did pleasantly notice how much more calm, relaxing and tranquil it was where I live and at the market. I just wanted to share my thoughts in the spirit of contribution to the market place of ideas....

Your friend,
David Meyberg

Why is it okay for you to say that people living in the area just have to deal with it and accept it, but not okay for people living in the area to say they don't want to deal with it?

As for approaching the drum circle to address my concerns? I think that a non-realistic suggestion, as the group changes every day and this sight itself has promoted the reality that there is no leadership, concensus making group or process. Am I supposed to approach it every week? Be accosted by the few that are aggressive and confrontational? (And that is the reality. The majority are cool and calm, but there's a volatile person in every group, and that's the one anyone approaching and complaining would end up having to deal with, and the one who is bringing the heat to the circle.)

The fever pitch of the drum circle usually reaches its crescendo at the end of the summer... which is neigh.
Kind of silly to stop it now... It gets colder and the drummers who play through the autumn and winter should
get medals for their staying power. It must really mean something important to them if they drum through the
cold wet and windy months. There is a nice clean quiet farmer's market on the west side for you NIMBYs.

And there is a nice field up in Henry Cowell for you to bang your godforsaken drum in. I live here, why should I be the one to move?

And please, somebody give ONE EXAMPLE of a "positive" thing that has come out of a drum circle, other than the drummer's own high? Something real- don't give me "a feeling of community" or some answer like that. If you're going to keep saying that drum circles are the apex of life and nirvana rolled into one, better be prepared to explain why it helps anyone other than yourselves.

I would think it far more sound worthy having harmonious drumming than noisy construction at that site. Drums are like hearts beating; jackhammers, etc. are like weapons.

Yes, in my humble opinion if you are not comfortable approaching someone from the circle to speak to about a real legal issue , like blocking traffic, just get over it and get on with your day. You certainly have a right to complain in anyway you choose fit. But we ALL put up with things in the summer in SC. Traffic, noise, 10's of millions of tourists and all the things that occur when that many people come to our city each year.

Its true that the height of the Drumming circle is the summer and it gets much smaller in the winter. If the Drum circle goes on every week for a few hours hours, I think we can all deal with that. I am a noise sensitive person. I don't particularly like drumming, sometimes I do but most often I don't. I normally avoid the Drum Circle for that same reason. But I support their right to be there. I use the farmers market. We spend untold amounts of tax dollars chasing people around downtown telling people where they can and cannot sit, where they can stand, where they can't sleep and it has accomplished nothing.

I would hope people would be more concerned with the constitutionality of the law being used. If you think its too loud, go change the sound ordinances. But good luck because the sound of development will always be louder.

We have to allow people to gather somewhere, and public space is the only option. No one has offered up a solution other then kick them out using police force. They are human beings who should have every single constitutional right we all do.
Remember people get fed there. It gives people a place to be which is off the mall. For many I have spoken to it is a place they go to feel safe, to have their sense of community if only for a few hours. Whatever true legal problems there may be, and blocking traffic is the only one I can think of, they can be dealt with peacefully. Besides the constitutional rights issue. Is it worth the tax dollars, the police time and resources to try and stop something that really is only as bad you allow yourself to affected by it?

Tim Rumford

You asked for one positive thing that has come from the Drum Circle. It's on the other thread from Tim. But here it is again. I know of three people, all homeless, who formed a small group and play voluntarily at a Watsonville Nursing home for free each and every week bringing a huge amount of joy to many people at great applause each week, many who are suffering, many dying. I often give them rides. They do it 100% free. They were such a hit they were asked to perform. at the Santa Cruz Stroke Center and have many times , again as volunteers. This spawned from them playing together at the Circle. How many people do you know who volunteer each week for the poor sick and dying? How many people do you know who put in that much effort volunteering each week? Besides that I would certainly count people being fed. The safety and community spirit they create for each other. I am sure there are many other things that have happened.

I have worked my entire life. I meet few people who do as much as those three people do each week.

If we destroy a mostly positive thing they have created, what message are we sending? Please stop this selfish us vs. them mentality non-sense. If any real crime is happening , there is a constitutional law to deal with it. Do not punish the many for the actions of a few.

Be prepared this afternoon to remove some fencing that has been erected around trees. The police cannot take this public space from the people.

for a little history lesson and those saying that folx in the drum circle should go somewhere else...the drum circle did used to be over at the red church place across the street. i thought it was a great place, people could dance, etc. it was far enough away from the farmers and consumers to not be too loud...unfortunately, the good christians across the way got all uppity about the pagans being on their turf or such and got the circle run out of there...

If you need to live in a place free from drummers, dancers, singers, panhandlers, and eccentrics, I encourage you to move to some place other than Santa Cruz.

Listed below are some very nice and very upscale nearby towns in which you can experience both the wondrous environment of the Monterey Bay and the peace-and-quiet of a capacious police state:

Los Gatos
The town is noted for its small but upscale downtown, with many chic shops and restaurants. It is also a preferred destination for antique shopping.
http://www.town.los-gatos.ca.us

Carmel-by-the-Sea
a small town endowed with a rich artistic history situated on the Monterey Peninsula in Monterey County
http://www.carmelcalifornia.com

No hard feelings, and we'll probably miss you with time.

A parked police car waits at Cedar and Cathcart. There could be a million reasons why the cop car is parked there. Maybe it is there in regards to the farmer's market.

"for a little history lesson and those saying that folx in the drum circle should go somewhere else...the drum circle did used to be over at the red church place across the street. i thought it was a great place, people could dance, etc. it was far enough away from the farmers and consumers to not be too loud...unfortunately, the good christians across the way got all uppity about the pagans being on their turf or such and got the circle run out of there..."

Not to defend the folks over at Calvary Episcopal -- I used to be a member, and left in something like sorrow _and_ anger -- but when the drum circle occupied the Calvary parking lot, all the meeting space inside the Calvary parish hall was unusable. Couldn't hear yourself think, _and_ you couldn't get your car into the lot and park. (Not to mention the time a circle set up a dome tent in our parking lot and sent people inside to fuck while others danced around outside. That was some years ago, but... unforgettable.)

It's a church, not a public space; it can invite the public in, but on its terms, not on the terms of anybody who wanders over.

I'm all for the drum circle in the parking lot. That'a a public space several dozens of yards from any building. End it at a particular time, and I'm not sure what it hurts. Unless some people use it as a cover for dealing. I don't know if that's an issue or not, but we used to have that trouble over at Calvary.

so there complaining about drummers drawing a crowd to there overpriced food?

cops are complaining probally because the drums drown out there remote viewing sound sensor technology.

REMOVING THE PUBLIC NUISANCE FENCES
About the time I reached Parking Lot #4, the Ragging Grannies were going through the Drummer Boy's Song, massed on the sidewalk with a crowd spilling out into the street around them next to the Farmer's Market. I moved my car to allow "Jumbogumbo" Joe Schultz to park his truck and unload his spine-stiffening soup. By the time I'd found a parking place, the crowd had moved back to the trees in the center of the lot where the Drummers have been playing for 10 years. The green mesh fences around two areas had been breached, and the Trash Orchestra was pounding away.

Eventually someone or ones toppled the third fence, and the community retook the public space.
Sgt. Harms, Officer Albert, and a new cop (my apologies for not having his name) roamed the lot , urging people to move out of the way--even when no moving vehicles were approaching.

TICKETING AN ACTIVIST
Rico of the Trash Orchestra got cited for expired registration that wasn't really expired (it was valid but his plates supposedly didn't reflect it). Becky of HUFF (Homeless United for Friendship & Freedom) and Valerie of SAFE (Society for Artistic Freedom and Expression/Streetperformers Against Foolish Enforcement) wielded video cameras.

I did some videoing and some audioing, which I hope to play tomorrow night on Free Radio Santa Cruz around 6 PM. My in-studio guest will be PBJ, arrested two Saturdays ago by the infamous Sgt. LeMoss for talking back (the formal charge: public intoxication). It'll be archived a few days later on the http://www.huffsantacruz.website.

Flame fire juggling, dancing, soupslurping, petitioning (soon to be posted on line) and incessant drumming were the order of the day. One man got a citation for smoking marijuana. He said he had a back condition and no money to finance a doctor's letter and a medical marijuana card.

Sorry I missed the part where the three assembly-quelling fences got torn down by the people.

DISCUSSIONS WITH SGT. HARMS

Sgt. Michael Harms claimed that he and his officers had "driven away noone" the week before, contrary to all reports I've received from drummers. I even asked during a drumming break if anyone had "left voluntarily" as Sgt. Harms insisted had happened. No one said they had. All who discussed the matter at all said they'd been intimidated into leaving or reported being told that the drum circle had moved and the police and mental health worker were "having a meeting" on the Drum Circle spot.

Sgt. Harms claimed he had announced there would be no tickets under Coonerty's Parking Lot Panic law, and said he was on the lookout for more serious crimes like open container, marijuana possession and sales, and blocking traffic.

He repeatedly proposed that the Drummers move elsewhere because of the 30-40 complaints he'd received in the last month (I hope I have those figures right). He didn't give the stats on how many tickets he'd actually issued. He also said he'd never issued an infraction citation from a third party unless he subsequently saw the crime himself.

Sgt. Harms insisted all he wanted to do was guarantee everyone's safety and deal with problems at the Drum Circle the community had complained about (though he seemed to feel the drumming itself was a problem).

MARY'S QUESTION: CAN I DRUM NEXT WEEK?
Mary, a drummer who was carrying a guitar, was one of the last to leave. She asked Sgt. Harms whether she could play next week if she left every fifteen minutes and then returned to the property. First the Sgt. said "yes, that won't create a problem". Then when asked to commit himself, he said "no".

His suggestion: go back to city council or the voters to change the law. Yet apparently Sgt. Harms can "change the law" whenever he wants--since today scores of people visibly violated the same law and Harms did nothing (suggesting that it would provoke too much tumult).

The lesson is plain: if the people show up in force, absurd laws get momentarily set aside. Once the public presence is gone, the cops creep back to continue sabotaging public assemblies they consider inappropriate. A lesson to know next week.

The police were also taking extensive notes so it's not unlikely that there may be some long-distance tickets issued subsequently.

Good work, everyone! Next time, we need a few participant cars and/or bikes parked on the lot. Everyone else, can then walk off the lot every fifteen minutes, then walk back on. This method isn't foolproof, but does create enough lack of probable cause to hopefully inhibit the Temptation to Ticket.

If police ask questions, suggest they consult the library for a copy of the Constitution (i.e. don't answer questions about who you are, whether you have a car, etc.). Ask them questions about who ordered this crackdown, how many sleeping tickets they've issued late, how much the operation is costing, are they on overtime?, can you speak with their sergeant about the waste of public money.

If people do get ticketed before 3:45 PM (around the time the courts are likely toclose), consider asking to be taken to a magistrate to determine if there's probable cause before you sign your citation (don't refuse to sign, simply say you want to talk with a magistrate first).

I sent this e-mail off to all 10 Council candidates earlier today:

From: rnorse3 [at] hotmail.com

To: kbeiers [at] sbcglobal.net; go [at] jacobslife.org; admin [at] palmspringsbum.org; ryancoonerty [at] hotmail.com; tim [at] tim4council.com; skenyatta [at] cruzio.com; laneforcouncil [at] baymoon.com; tonymadrigal [at] gmail.com; lisa [at] lisamolyneux.com; daveterra [at] comcast.net

Subject: Police Fence Off Public Areas of Parking Lot #4 Near Farmer's Market
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:27:44 -0700

Blueshirts Erase Drum Circle: New Ban on Public Assembly Near Farmer's Market

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/09/05/18533487.php?show_comments=1#18534747

As a city council candidate what is your position on the right of the public to use public spaces, including public parking lots to gather, socialize, speak, petition, perform, and drum: provided they aren't blocking traffic or engaging in criminal behavior?

Please forward your replies.

Thanks,

Robert Norse
(423-4833)


AFTERNOTE

None of the candidates or any City Council members were visible at the People's Successful Resistance to the attack on the Drum Circle. Any changes we make apparently have to come from the streets. What else is new?

There certainly were a lot of brave souls out there today.
I'm proud of everyone. I feel this is good for the community at large and especially the folks who regularly participate and enjoy the yummy atmosphere that the drummers provide every week. Let them challenge us every 6 months. It challenges us to consider what is important
about an activity like this and why we a apart of it in the first place. It brings us together, strengthens our resolve and gives us even more
to celebrate. CELEBRATE!!

Drum Circle Protagonists, you're going to lose this battle, as surely as you're going to lose your grip on the social fabric of this town. I was one of many people who complained to Coonerty about your drug-addled drumming. I'm glad we're being taken seriously. And my suggestion to those who say that we should all go to Carmel-by-the-Sea for a better quality of life, would be that perhaps you should go there instead and set up your drum circle next to their Farmers Market.

Oh wait, that won't work. Robert Norse's family will take away his trust fund if he pulls that stunt there.

Alright, you've offered an example, and I will concede: three people were helped by a drum circle in tangible ways. I can admit when I'm wrong, and I thank you for finally providing us non-drummers an example.

The Sentinel's smearjob and comments can be found at:

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-cruz-sentinel/TEU4DQDA2LI4BJ0QA/p2#lastPost

Bring your hip boots, gas mask, and protective gloves.

Thanks for the link Robert. I'll head over there now with my swamp gear. Good thing I bought all this extra protective clothing and these extra-high swamp boots to wade through your articles here. Sounds like I'll need them on the other side. See you over there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZOPm_WRtbY&eurl=http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_10435250

Shows the Raging Grannies singing their song specially composed for the event (a piece of it), "friendly" Sgt. Harms taking photos of the criminal drummers, someone tearing down the Coonerty fence (one of the three green mesh chest-high barriors set up to preemptively eliminate the public assembly there), and some happy people.

Keep the photographer, fire the Genevieve Bookwalter, the SCPD PRster and Sentinel "reporter"

I am glad to see the community retake the air from these drummers. C'mon, guys, if you just need a public place that's big enough to hold all of you, there are large parks all over this county. Go down to the beach and drum along with the waves. Get political and drum next to the county court building for a change. Go commune in the redwood trees where very few people will be bothered by it.

But that's not really the point, is it? The point is to get attention from other people for your noisemaking/drumming. It's not good enough to make music: you want an audience. A big audience. Very few people show up for several hours of drumming voluntarily, so you've decided to force your music on the people involuntarily -- apparently because only drummers deserve human rights.

You DON'T have a "right" to inflict your noise on hundreds of other people for hours at a time. Think about the poor people that work nearby. Should they all have to suffer from the increased noise for up to six hours at a time, every single week? What standard of liberty and justice are you promoting? "Love, peace, and six-hour-long headaches every week for all nearby workers that can't afford to take the afternoon off"?

Show some consideration for other people. Think about someone other than yourselves for once. Rotate the meeting site. Play a half-hour set and then take a good, long break to give the listeners' ears a break.

And above all, when you get unambiguous community feedback that says your group is noisy, disruptive, and unwelcome -- don't tell the community that the community is wrong to feel that way. Try to address its concerns instead of saying that you're too important to have to care about anyone else's views.

Thanks for some actual dialog Craig. I appreciate your non offensive manor in answering me. I think we need more of that, dialog. I do have to say that its not three people being helped, its three people from the circle helping literally 50+ people each week. People who are sick severely disabled or dying. This information was given to the Sentinel reporter, but of course she did nothing with it. Thanks for the tone of your reply regardless if we differ on the issue.

Sincerely Katie Lehne

"This "not in my town" mentality is not the answer. People living near the Drummers Circle should expect a little noise. After ten years I think SC can handle it for a few hours a week."

OK. How about having the drum circle in front of your place?

Someone asked if the Drum Circle can play at my place. Sure! But I live in a middle class apartment plagued by some very nice, and many very rude, violent, largely elitist folk. I fear the people who live around me where I live at night. I learn to live with it, I chose to move here with full knowledge of what it's like and I will move when I can to the country as I have always planned and where i have always preferred to live. Most can choose where we live, but not everyone. Did you choose to live downtown?

I guess it really about how we perceive things. I see how people with homes cars and money can disrespect and area just as any other group of people. I don't consider the drums to be disrespectful and it's in an area that has lots of noisy City sponsored events. It's called downtown.

Did you not know that there was a scene there that you would have to deal with in Downtown SC when you chose to either live or go there??? I knew what I was getting myself into when I moved here. Downtown has ALWAYS had these issues. People forget what it was like when the bust station was next to borders.

So if they can get away with playing in the parking lot, I have zero problem with it. I share a rental, so I would have to ask if they can play inside and they wouldn't fit. but in theory sure! I don't have an issue with it at all. Having them play on the grass or the parking lot would be a nice break from seeing what people do who have a place to stay, near the beach, yet treat the area like crap with zero regard for those around them.

There is one issue, it's not public property. I rent. We do have parking lot with overflowing garbage bins. The drums would be a nice break from the domestic squabbles, screaming stereos of gangster rap after 10pm, the majority who don't bother to use the recycling bins, throw so much trash in the bins they overflow with plastic and cardboard recyclables. Recycling is only 10 feet away. When anyone who doesn't live here comes and rescues these items so they can be recycled, (generally poor people) First alarm kicks them out. Its also 5 miles from the mall. But hey, give it a try!

I have said i am not a drummer, nor do I even particularly like drumming for hours. But I would not mind it for a few hours each week. If I was a home owner I would invite them, but I am not. I am disabled and live very simply and split a small apartment. Any other questions I can help you with?

SUM DIM WRITES: "Oh wait, that won't work. Robert Norse's family will take away his trust fund if he pulls that stunt there. "

BECKY: Now I know why you don't use your own name. That way when you libel someone like you just did here, it lessens the chance of being subpoened and charged.

There is not and never was any stipulation on the part of Robert Norse' family that he agree to stay away from Carmel or Monterrey. For your information, Robert's parents are both deceased. Please leave it alone.